what was the actual composing process? john french [drumbo] once told me beefheart shoved a shoebox full of scraps of paper and said: 'turn this into a song'.

yeah, that's...- john was..., what time are we talking about?

i think that would have been like '68 or '69.

ok, that would be 'trout mask replica' - because john was pretty much at that point the, err, deliverer of parts to the band members.

yes, he said he should have been credited as an arranger. at least on 'trout mask replica' - he thought, from what he had done.

it's tough to say. yes, at some point everybody should have been; at some point - how do you call that?

it would change with every song?

no. the bulk of that was, err, his piano ramblings and john in some coherent fashion turning them into something that could be turned into guitar parts. now, whether john did most of that: we áll did some of that. after john did it we would do that ourselves to make it even playable....

starting with don, you know, like what i thought of it then is totally different than how i see it now in retrospect. i don't know how much is hindsight thinking, but basically the feel, the elements, the texture of things was very important to him - he did control that. that was the positive experience for me working with him.

you're talking about don van vliet?

right. as far as knowing what he had done, he didn't have any idea: we could have changed the parts totally and he would never have known - because he couldn't remember from one song to the next, unless he had heard us rehearsing it a lot. for he always heard us rehearsing it a lot, because he was in the next room sleeping or laying around. anyway --

when john french left --

which time?

that's right: he did leave several times. was there ever a point when you or someone else took over that function?

yes, i was the guy that did it from then on.

oh, i see. did you do it for 'clear spot'?

yes. i did it for 'lick my decals off, baby' and 'clear spot'. with 'the spotlight kid' john came back. 'the spotlight kid' was really great music but a horrible time for the band: performance-wise it was one of the worst experiences for the band.

are you talking about live concerts or the recording of the album?

about the recording sessions.

it's very funny: i have a test pressing of that album which sounds so much better - i don't know why.

well, you know how that all goes. but still as far as the band: we were just emotionally beaten to death, and at that point we were letting ourselves get beaten by his particular environment and, um, the stress started to show.

as far as when we got to 'clear spot', the band had more juice. i felt personally a lot more empowered. i was able to say: 'fuck you, i'll do it this way'! which was, you know, a transition from being a teenager and having some type of idol person to a point where i realized the guy was really talented but full of shit - and so the band played more powerfully....

i think the material was great on 'the spotlight kid' - we were playing really halfhearted and it sucks (laughs) because of that.

i want to take óne example [of the songs on 'clear spot']: 'crazy little thing'. what i really like is the 'dove-tailed' opening and closing: that guitar riff, that's you, isn't it?

yes.

is that something you bought to it or was that something in the original composition?

to be completely accurate: i can't remember.

was it one of those gray areas?

no, what i would say is that it was a lot of both with him having the final say. so, at the time of coming up with the parts, he might have whistled an idea to me, i start to working it out and he goes: 'yeah, that's cool' - but, you know what i mean: who played that? and as i extended it into other parts then all of a sudden i'm taking it to a further conclusion - and where does his stuff start and where does ours?...

right. artistically good collaborations are like that: you get to the point when it gets really good because you have these minds coming together.

these were usual collaborations, but this was all hím. supposedly he taught me how to play, so there was, you know, he again. so i respected the non-musician artistic idea, the feel, his keeping working through things. and he would try to go into that - his rhythmic thing has been something that still lives in my playing: the stuff that i picked up from him rhythmically. but as far as sticking parts together: having any kind of continuity to anything, he never had that.

i know he claimed in some interviews that he taught the band note for note every single --

he couldn't remember note for note from one day to the next! i'm not putting him down for that, i'm just saying that he had... - you know, his paranoia created a lot of creativity that really wasn't true, a creativity as far as what he had control of. his general feel was great, but the inner workings: he didn't know what was going on there.

he wasn't a musician enough to know, he just - you know, it's just like his vocals: basically i think ninety percent of anything he recorded vocally, probably was terrible compared to what i heard at the time of rehearsal. what he could do when no one was around, was really fantastic!...

what he did on stage? half of the shows he would be complaining about monitor systems and stuff!...

i didn't get to see him until 1980 but he had developed this sort of phobia about yellow lights: he said: 'turn that off, it feels like it's peeing on me...'.

right, so it's a creative way to hide his total insecurity at having to go out there and sing your shit.

yes, i have always thought in this funny way he was shy.

absolutely, absolutely.... this big shy person that put on some other front - that's why i like him. i wouldn't have put up with near as much stuff: it was a little kid in a lot of pain out there, a really creative guy.

did you ever come across this quote that jimi hendrix once called you among the greatest guitarists in the world?

no way!

in an interview he did! i wondered if you ever met him?

i met him once - but under a really funny circumstance.... but i can't remember thát, i would need to see that.

someone asked him who were the best guitarists and you were on the list.

well, that was really nice of the guy. he was a really nice guy the time i met him, anyway.

meeting him, is that a circumstance you can talk about?

yeah, it was just one of those weird circumstances in 1968 or something. we were backstage and we smoked a joint - and it wasn't like i hadn't smoked pot before - but that particular night it hit me real heavy.

i started dancing around, almost hallucinating, and they had to walk me out to the back of this club we were at and sit me down! i started passing out - and it wasn't like anything usual, it was just one of those times when it really hit me funny.

maybe you were picking things up from him...: an extra contact high.

no; i don't know - i'm not into that you know. i think he was kind of a cool player, but i think there are players of infinitely more talent. but anyway, he was a nice guy. what was cool about it, was that he was low key. he was a nice guy and i learned his tunes when i was fifteen or whatever. so i'm going: 'hi jimi, how ya doing!', you know.

for me it was always amazing that these stars were always little guys - i expected him to be big.... but me at six feet five (196 cm), these guys are five feet seven (170 cm) - or whatever always seems like: 'you're really a star? - how did you get so little...'.